First came the catcalls from the left stating that Bush was torturing al-Qaeda without the knowledge of Congress. Then most recently there were the catcalls from the left that it was Bush who wanted those CIA tapes destroyed.
Recently we found out that the White House actually told the CIA that it was a bad idea to destroy them, and now we learn that Pelosi and friends knew full well about the interrogation techniques employed by the CIA:
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
“The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough,” said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
~~~Yet long before “waterboarding” entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.
With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).
Individual lawmakers’ recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support. “Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing,” said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. “And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement.
This is what time does to people. They forget.
In 2002 we were months removed from 9/11. al-Qaeda had killed thousands of our citizens and we were rightly concerned of any other plots being hatched by these madmen. Democrats and Republicans alike. They knew the threat and understood that it took a bit more then asking “pretty please” to get information from madmen.
Years later, with 9/11 a distant memory to some people, the Democrats don’t care anymore. It’s back to believing that another attack is impossible and questions like “how could Bush allow such brutal interrogation methods?” are being thrown around.
It’s sad really. These techniques will no longer be used because of these idiotic partisan attacks, and information we dearly need against further attacks will be lost.
And we’re back to September 10th, 2001.
UPDATE
As JustADude noticed in the comment section, the left is imploding:
rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-09-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
10. But the real question here is, is the Democratic Party willing to challenge Pelosi
in the primaries with the possibility of replacing her? I say no. I say even if we decided she was the worst person in the world, she’d get the backing of the Democratic Party in her next primary.Is there any Democratic movement in her district or state to challenge her??
Now they want Pelosi’s head on a stake and are throwing roses at Harman, when a year ago they were all clapping that Nancy replaced Harman because she was a warmongering Bush lover.
And with all the evidence that many politicians knew about the CIA tapes Joe Biden is fanning the BDS:
Biden calls for special counsel to investigate destruction of interrogation tapes: “I think this is one case where it really does call for a special counsel. I think this leads right into the White House.”
Idiots.
See author page
Today on the left they are making rumbles about replacing Reid and Pelosi. Also I just saw a left side post pop up in my RSS reader where left side blogs are even saying how Jay Rockefeller is giving conflicting talking points.
No body is buying the NIE except the DEMS and the Iranians and the Russians.
Jane Harmon modified her timeline for when she sent a letter about holding onto the tapes by adding there is an additional earlier classified letter she sent only still suggesting to keep them.
Lots of backpedaling and chess moves going on right now and it’s all pretty sloppy at the moment.
All in all it looks like this whole house of cards is getting ready to fall apart or at least isn’t getting any stronger.
Joe Biden added to the circus this morning and Atlas Shruged has the low down on the ridiculous things he said this morning.
Gotta go to the store and restock on popcorn I guess.
Jay Rockefeller needs to be investigated for all the leaks…….he is the central person who knew about the NIE, Joe Wilson, Waterboarding, and all the other junk that the New York Times gets wind of.
Don’t forget the financial tracking program that got told about and FISA wiretapping.
Of course Americans don’t like hearing about torture but they hate the thought of agencies like the CIA, to whom they do give their trust, to be involved in a coverup. And the excuse that “we had to destroy the evidence to protect the identities of our agents” just is not believable to most Americans. And this does not seem to be a completely partisan issue 1/2 of the Gang of Four who are briefed on such matters are Republican and both of them are mad about it. Democratic senators represent a far larger number of Americans than Republicans about 175 million to 125 million for the Republicans. Is your implication now that 175 million have joined “The Left”
In 2002 waterborading was fine. In 2005 it was an issue for the military. Today it is still legal for the CIA. The rate that the Dems change their mind and good people could get caught up in all the “now we don’t like it crowd” I might have destroyed the tapes to protect my people too.
Renditions were fine under Clinton and also in 2002, but now they are bad.
You just can’t make this stuff up.
The “reality-divorced” community act like they got “bitch-slapped” with this story. The WaPo taketh away.
A key point that I saw lost today on this story is that, in September 2002 when this briefing took place, the Senate was controlled by the Democrats (the House by Republicans).
Jay “I’m stupider than I look” Rockefeller was chairman of the Senate intelligence committee. A month later, his inability to see through “Bushitler’s lies”, left Democratic “puppets” like Clinton and Edwards in the dark about the “troof” when they voted to go to war in Iraq. But I digress.
John Ryan: “Coverup” what? Nothing that was done was illegal, but had the traitors in the Valerie Plame wing of the CIA got the tapes they would have released them to Al Jazeera so every America hater could point at them as proof of how bad we are.
P.S. Don’t expect Pelosi or any of the Dems who were informed about these interrogations to be held accountable. Just like it was when Dems said Saddam was a “threat with Wmds” they know they can count on their sheeple to forget that they ever knew about the interrogations.
Every occupant of the Library Tower in L.A. should go out and register as a Republican tomorrow. If Dems had been in charge, they would be dead now.
Please remember, evidently over use of botox makes you stupid or forgetful and the democrats have overused it for years. How many hundreds of times did the two Klington’s say, ‘I don’t remember’ under oath. I ask the democrats of the country to identify one, just one honest, patriotic democrat in congress. Before you say the name Goggle it so we don’t have to.
The paramount question remains:
CAN Speaker Pelosi get the Democrats’ Congressional Approval rating lower, and if it’s lower than the margin of error, then what?
btw, please, allow me to read between the lines ala Mr Subliminal…
Biden calls for special counsel to investigate destruction of interrogation tapes: “I think this is one-more chance to accuse, defame, and distract-case where it really does call for a special counsel-who could distract people from my own accountability in the decision to support, promote, authorize, fund, and continue the Iraq War all under the guise of Bush lied. I think this leads right into the White House-so elect me, and you’ll have a 16 Federal spy agencies you can trust.â€Â
Some where theres a world where there is no Lying Democraps or traitors in the agencies. Some where there is a leader that will clean out the swamp. I just hope I live to see it.
FireDogLake and Marcy Wheeler are singing the same tune today.
There are even worse things being said on some real real far left blogs that are not printable in mixed company.
Somebody tell Rhett o Rick Mamma Sheehan is running…then duck.
From all I have been reading I get the impression that the classified version was done and approved by all the players.
Then at the last minute someone decided there needed to be an unclassified version of the summary that got wrote in a big hurry and pushed through at the last moment.
The VIPs types were the ones talking about analysts willing to leak if one did not get put out.
I am not buying the whole interrogation tapes, NIE, and other things all hitting at the same time.
It sounds to much like a pre planned event and just staging.
Remember Rockefeller produced a memo to exploit every incident about the Bush adnministration. When are we going to start charging politicians with treason?
As far as the White House goes , it’s already on record Miers also sent a maybe hold em letter to the CIA so they are covered and Joe B is just blowing smoke.
Yet at the same time we also hear from SuperSpy Val that Shadow AG OnTheFritz is passing GWB and DickC’s testimony off to Waxman for show and tell.
I want three lotto wins in a row like that to pay for my beer bill.
Maybe we can get Momma S and Cynthia McKinney to both run against Pelosi one as a dem and the other as a green and split the vote enough to take her down.
The runoff between those two after that could be put on pay per view a a cage grudge match.
“In 2002 we were months removed from 9/11. al-Qaeda had killed thousands of our citizens and we were rightly concerned of any other plots being hatched by these madmen. Democrats and Republicans alike. They knew the threat and understood that it took a bit more then asking “pretty please” to get information from madmen.”
Curt – I don’t believe this anymore. I personally believe that the politicians back then did not understand the threat, but understood that Americans were pissed off about the 9/11 attack. As such, the politicians knew that it was the politically expedient thing to do to support these types of interrogation techniques. However, now that the Democrats, the Left and the mass media have successfully turned a good portion of the American public against the Bush Administration and the war effort, the Democrats know that it is politically expedient to be against anything the Bush Administration is doing, including these interrogation techniques.
I don’t believe anyone in Congress, especially Democrats, ever understood this war effort. I believe they all make their decisions based on what is politically expedient. I also believe that none of them understood the threat in the 1990s either, but they were playing politics back then too.
I don’t believe we have any statesmen who act on principle anymore in government. I believe most, if not all of them are politicians who will do and say anything to further their own cause and power. Bill Clinton set the standard for this in the 1990s and successfully governed for 8 years. Now, everyone is learning from that precedent.
And I blame the Republicans as well, as most, if not all, of them have no understanding of the Islamic totalitarian threat and have no understanding of history, especially of this Long War. They are simply acting on loyalty to Party if they support the war effort or acting like Democrats if they don’t support it and believe that will keep them in office.
Biden is slipping deeper and deeper into insanity. Time to get him off the street before he becomes another of the church shooters.
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 12/10/2007 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
And the excuse that “we had to destroy the evidence to protect the identities of our agents” just is not believable to most Americans.
Speaking as an actual American, I can assure you it makes perfect sense.
Shame on the Democrats who kept their mouths shut about torturing human beings.
But double shame on Conservatives who now make it official American policy to practice torture.
For those Conservatives who love to know that America is torturing people: Can you document a sinlge case of your justification of torture: The “24” fictional TV show situation of the ticking time bomb, found via torture? We keep hearing you justify it because there is a bomb hidden somewhere. Where and when was it?
But Osama bin laden is still free, despite torture.
Show me real proof, with names and dates not supplied “on background” or by un-named “insiders”.
Otherwise you are draging America’s honor through the mud for an abhorent practice that does not provide any increase in “safety”.
Philadelphia Steve Says; “But Osama bin laden is still free, despite torture.
Show me real proof, with names and dates not supplied “on background” or by un-named “insiders”.
Otherwise you are draging America’s honor through the mud for an abhorent practice that does not provide any increase in “safety”.”
– True, but many of the people who carry out the agenda that happens to be Bin Laden’s brain child are not (free, but for most cases alive). Actually, there has been a decrease in both terror activity and recruitment in the world, especially with the Al Qaeda Network. In fact, the suicidal techniques that they practice go against the Bedhouin Societal Standards, and are also a flagrant violation of the Koran’s teachings.
As far as insiders are concerned. That is a typical practice of both parties. If you were implying that and not just Republicans practicing it then I would most certainly agree with you.
Just recently, Rolling Stone Magazine made use of the same tactic to exploit the possiblity of making themselves sound credible. They tried to assert that Bush’s Administration was already planning a ground assault on Iran. They said that Insiders tipped them off about it. Just plain ludicrous, not because it had a controversial issue but because I didn’t think they were credible.
Plus, the fact that they were prone to already having a political bias that was famous for it’s historical exploitation in the playing fields of “Libel”.
Because of waterboarding KSM is no longer a threat and gave us so much information the 9/11 commission report footnoted his confessions over 100 times. The information he provided included names and addresses of al-Qaeda agents who now are no longer a threat to us PLUS he gave up the library tower plot which saved thousands of lives.
You liberals are a scary and dangerous breed. To think you wouldn’t torture someone to save thousands of innocent peoples lives is just plain disgusting.
Re: “- True, but many of the people who carry out the agenda that happens to be Bin Laden’s brain child are not (free, but for most cases alive). Actually, there has been a decrease in both terror activity and recruitment in the world, especially with the Al Qaeda Network.”
Dead wrong.
The Bush Administration has cooked the book by dropping some of the acts from the “terrorist” list, such as attacks occurring in Iraq.
But the, since Loyal Bushies love to know that people are being tortured, the torture will go on.
Re: “As far as insiders are concerned. That is a typical practice of both parties. If you were implying that and not just Republicans practicing it then I would most certainly agree with you.”
No. I am referring to neoConservatives using unnamed sources as their “proof” that torture has prevented attacks. That has nothing to do with political leaking of other information. It has everything to do with your tryng to change the subject from the fact that you cannot document (reliably) a single success from turing America toward torture.
re: “You liberals are a scary and dangerous breed.”
Does that mean we will be next on your list of people to be tortured?
Yeah, that’s what it means….
Retarded….
No, I am not Dead Wrong. There is, in fact far less willing participants in Terrorist Organizations. Thus Lowering their recruitment rates. That’s how it is today, I doubt will be any different tomorrow. Given that the more these organizations kill the more the Muslim society turns against them because they are soiling the integrity of both the societal standards of Islam and the it’s reputation. They also cause other people to become prejudice of the people who practice that religion. Also, the insurgents are counted as terrorists. However, I doubt they can still attack Jordan with VX or conduct suicide bombings in Turkey and Saudi Arabia as they were able to before. When they were terrorists that is!