Yes actually I HAVE read the Geneva Convention and the US Law of Land Warfare. These thugs are NOT POWs and are Mercenaries at best, Spies at worse (under GC articles). I suggest you read up on it instead of accusing other of not reading it. I listed out the regulations in another post.

Here is the link to the post, Comment #12: http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/07/we-dont-speak-of-the-clintons-that-way/

1st, your comment that captured agents could be executed under the rules of war, and somehow we’re doing them a favour by feeding them and clothing them, that’s typical American ignorance of the world outside them. Have you actually heard of the Geneva Convention? Or read up on any rules of war? PoWs are not elligible for execution.

2nd, sleep deprivation is one of the worst tortures, I would actually prefer water boarding. You would die quicker not sleeping than not eating.

Starting to sound like people have more sympathy for the enemy than the American soldiers.

Meanwhile…thousands of REAL pictures exist showing americans torturing arabs.

Waterboarding is waterboarding.
Torture looks this and this .
And it often ends up like this.

For a look at what torture is like, just look at the torture manual used by our enemy.
Waterboarding is a method of interrogation that appeals to the most b…

Grow up. Are you scared of Alec Baldwin’s violent words and Bill Maher’s jokes? Are they violent men? I’m talking about violent actions (your examples aren’t even attempting to incite violence). You don’t hear me complaining about Ann Coulter wishing right wing militiamen blowing up the NY Times building, do you? No, because getting upset about such words is idiotic.

Since you can’t find any violent lefties from the last 30 years, why don’t you just relax and go back to re-reading the Turner Diaries.

I have said this more than a few times. The solution to this issue is simple: Congress must do their job and define the regulations on what is and is not acceptable through the US Code, Military Commissions Act (the people we fight are given no rights under the Geneva Convention), UCMJ, the Law of Land Warfare, and CIA regulations. That is the only solution. However, it means THIS congress has to take responsibility for these actions.

Since it does not seem to get read, let me say it again. Congress must do their job and define the regulations on what is and is not acceptable through the US Code, Military Commissions Act (the people we fight are given no rights under the Geneva Convention), UCMJ, the Law of Land Warfare, and CIA regulations.

In my last response to this useful idiot, I would suggest he read up on The Terrorist Screening Center, The Patriot Act (actually READ it) and look up the FBI database on domestic terror groups (ELF and ALF are on it). I KNOW the Constitution. These rights are guaranteed and protected thoughout the intell gathering proccess. Where were these protections under Clinton? While we are at it, how about the left supporting the 9th and 10th Ammendments?

The way the intell gathering system the left calls “sping on Americans” used to work was we killed/captured a terrorist in some part of the world and if for some reason a US phone number, website, or IP address was on his cell phone or computer, that system was monitored. If you are on a terrorist’s rolodex, that should be due cause enough to see why.

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/press_release_0246.shtm

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20060309.html (this has a link to the original full Patriot Act along with a Q&A section)

If you have not seen what your compatriots are saying and writing, see http://www.zombietime.com

Good bye.

I’m not even making a stretch in any of these arguments. It’s you deluded folks who try and conflate liberals and islamofascists together using the fever dreams of freepers as “facts”.

My point is simple. We don’t need to torture. It doesn’t help (you can make them to talk, but you can’t make them tell the truth). It’s unamerican, maybe you don’t understand what I mean by that, it means we’ve always been strong enough to hold to our own moral core, even when threatened by true evil (see Nazis, etc). We’ve never done it before, and we shouldn’t do it now. All you come up with is “making terrorists cold is not torture”. Fine, but waterboarding is (and everyone agreed it was when our enemies did it 20-40 years ago) and we never had to have a discussion of “Just how much can we torture?” or even “How close can we get to torture?” until neocons with no moral core took over this country.

They say you can’t reason somebody out of something if he hasn’t been reasoned into it in the first place. just a waste your time.

To sum up your actual points - Move-on says bad things. Code Pink sends medicine and supplies to refugees in Fallujah. Lefties on blogs say bad things (really? And you assume they’re not just trolls?). Animal rights groups and environmental terrorists have done bad things. You seem to be a little short on details, since you have none, perhaps some links to the where on freep you read about this? I’m sorry, I thought this thread was about hyperventilating liberals not bedwetting neocons. I don’t agree with any of the actions you’ve listed (with the exception of sending medicine to Fallujah), although the details are scant, but they’re far from terrifying.

As far as Bush’s trampling of the constitution, you might want to give it a read. You’ll find that article 1 and 3, as well as amendments 1, 4, 5, 6, and 8 seem to be regarded as optional. But my guess is that you’re only concerned with amendment 2.

The only violent leftist I know who is still spitting out vitrol is doing it from your side of the aisle, but then I would assume you’re familiar with the history of David Horowitz.

So you have NO idea what the ANSWER/ACT/MOVE-On/Stormfront/Black Bloq protesters are saying at their little gatherings? Have you researched them at all? Do you know what they are writing and what they are demanding?

Did you know an “anti-war” protester hunted down and shot an unarmed Airman on the 4th of July this year? Did you know Code Pink sent funds and supplies to Fallujah during the Marine’s battles there? Do you know that indymedia has instructions on how to assault Soldiers within CONUS? Have you seen the comments left by leftists on milblogs and articles about Soldiers? Have you even seen the destruction cause by the Animal rights and environmentalist groups? Guess not.

And since the same members of the Weatherman and their spin-off groups are still around and spewing their vitriol, it IS relevant to the threat level. The left has made an unholy alliance with the Islamic caliphate wannabes, documented in more than a few places.

And I do not mean THIS ISSUE of “torture”. I mean in general from the left. Though as I stated above, I never heard a peep from the left on how the Haditha Marines were mistreated while in confinement.

Actually, WACO WAS A GROSS VIOLATION of power. No trial, just shooting, by TANKs no less. During that same time, National Guard units were given very unconstitutional orders, which we rejected, to engage in surveillance against conservative groups. I was a young E-3 at the time and we had many nights wondering what exactly was going on.

WHAT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED by Bush? Since I gave an oath 14 years ago upon enlisting and 11 years ago upon commission, I sure as heck would love to know what infringements there have been. Since “anti-war” fanatics can visit leaders who call for our destruction without consequence and hold their little protests at will wherever they choose, I fail to see where the Constitution has been violated. The only people I see whose rights are infringed upon are military recruiters, conservatives on college campuses, and attempts to silence talk radio by the left.

You still get to say whatever you want, and though I think it is wrong, nothing will stop you so where is this “police state”?

As for this waterboarding thing, I never used it or any other technique, but I never dealt with terrorist prisoners in rear areas and probably never will as I am not MI. I do know we are not recreating scenes from SAW and hacking limbs off these people or skinning them alive. THAT is torture. If Congress believes it is “waterboarding” is torture then they should do their damned Constitutional duty and rewrite/clarify the regulations. I myself have to much other stuff to worry about in the real world making sure our troops, the Iraqis, and the Afhganis build and sustain their forces.

Abu Ghraib was a failure of training and a breakdown of command. It was not torture, it was stupidity and a shame on the US Defense Department. Soldiers and civilians there behaved like a frat house and got slammed. It is interesting to note that, when the Iraqis took over the facility a year or so ago, the AQ prisoners were begging for all the comforts (Human rights officers, medical care, clean cells, healthy food) that us “Evil Americans” gave them. Did you even know we had human rights officers?

And yes, I would LOVE for the Regan Republicans to return and tell the left exactly where to stick crushing big government, endless taxes, and the unaccountable brainwashing that is public education. Unfortunately, President Bush runs things in a ‘consensus’ building way as he did in Texas and, even though he has been betrayed by the left for every agenda item of theirs he pushed through, he still tries to make deals.

I wish a real conservative would step up and seal the boarders, cut taxes (move to a flat or consumption tax and then end personal taxes soon after), CUT government (not just reduce its growth), and actually let us defend ourselves against clear and present threats. I also wish the Part of JFK would again be the party of JFK, but that will never happen.

I attacked you because you are delusional. You live in a wingnut fantasy world where Stalinist leftists are in league with islamofascists to destroy America. Angry leftists commenting does not equal support of torture for those who make them angry, particularly when that anger is directed at the ACT OF TORTURE. You say you don’t support torture, do you support our actions in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib? How about waterboarding?

I honestly have no idea what totalitarianism you are referring to from 1995. Are you talking about Waco/Ruby Ridge? The assault rifle ban? I’d like to hear what was so bad it makes the current assault on civil liberties pale in comparison.

The very fact that you have to bring up the Weathermen, an organization that has ceased to be for at least 32 years, to justify the violent left (any leftist violence in the US since then? There’s certainly plenty from the right) makes clear your delusions. Simple question, if the democratic party “pander to extreme leftists”, why haven’t they cut off funding for war in Iraq? The answer is that what fringe left there is (and given that the percentage of the population who want US troops out of Iraq within the next 12 months hovers between 60 and 70%, being anti-war is hardly “fringe”) is completely ignored by the democratic party.

As far as the amusement of lefties defending the constitution, 10 years ago I might have agreed with you (and besides Michael Moore and Ted Rall, who didn’t want us to go kill Bin Laden? So I really don’t appreciate being tarred with that absurdity that is your last sentence). It’s almost unimaginable to me that the party of Goldwater has drifted so far away from it’s libertarian roots. But that’s where we are until Republicans wake up.