Puddintain, put down the shovel. You’ll only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

Today he would have a fatwa agaisnt him.

In response to Barbary raids on their shipping, the United States (represented by Thomas Jefferson) signed a treaty in 1786 with Islamic Morocco (the first country to recognize the United States upon independence, BTW) to protect shipping lines and assert the friendship between the US and Morocco.

It remains, to this day, the oldest unbroken treaty ever signed by the US.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1786t.htm

The argument against Mr. Ellison is that he is pretending to take an oath in a way that will fool Jews and Christians, because in their tradition, taking an oath on a holy book means that person is bound by their word. In the Muslim tradition, it is ok to lie if it will “help Islam”.

puddintain builds the straw man and tries to deflect attention from the indefensible issue of lying under oath. (or pretending to tell the truth in a way that American Jews and Christians feel is similar to the concept of “lying under oath”)

The Bible, even the psalm quoted, does not sanction wiping out towns, except as directed by G-d. The Bible is clear that a Judge may sentence a criminal to die after a fair trial, but that prophets no longer exist that can call for the Jewish nation to wipe out a town. Most of the wiping out of towns are done as a result G-d’s word to Moses, in the Land of Israel, and the follow thru of that commandment by Joshua. No cases in the bible are sanctioned without the word of an acceptable prophet, and there have been no such prophets for 2400 years. (Based on the concept that only G-d has the authority to judge nations)

That the early Roman church claimed the right to wage war and take prisoners and slaughter Jews is not found in the Bible. Men make excuses for their evil deeds, and most bible scholars recognize the early churches excesses as inexcusable.

That most Muslim scholars hold holy war to be legit is the worrying part, to those of us who are not Muslims.
Seems to me that it is hard to take the word of a Muslim, or make a contract with one. Who know if he is led by an Imam who believes holy war against the infidel is a commandment?

There is no way in American Jurisprudence to “see into the heart” of a man.

The argument against Mr. Ellison is that he is pretending to take an oath in a way that will fool Jews and Christians, because in their tradition, taking an oath on a holy book means that person is bound by their word. In the Muslim tradition, it is ok to lie if it will “help Islam”.

puddintain builds the straw man and tries to deflect attention from the indefensible issue of lying under oath. (or pretending to tell the truth in a way that American Jews and Christians feel is similar to the concept of “lying under oath”)

The Bible, even the psalm quoted, does not sanction wiping out towns, except as directed by G-d. The Bible is clear that a Judge may sentence a criminal to die after a fair trial, but that prophets no longer exist that can call for the Jewish nation to wipe out a town. Most of the wiping out of towns are done as a result G-d’s word to Moses, in the Land of Israel, and the follow thru of that commandment by Joshua. No cases in the bible are sanctioned without the word of an acceptable prophet, and there have been no such prophets for 2400 years. (Based on the concept that only G-d has the authority to judge nations)

That the early Roman church claimed the right to wage war and take prisoners and slaughter Jews is not found in the Bible. Men make excuses for their evil deeds, and most bible scholars recognize the early churches excesses as inexcusable.

That most Muslim scholars hold holy war to be legit is the worrying part, to those of us who are not Muslims.
Seems to me that it is hard to take the word of a Muslim, or make a contract with one. Who know if he is led by an Imam who believes holy war against the infidel is a commandment?

There is no way in American Jurisprudence to “see into the heart” of a man.

Numbers:
“And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, ‘Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.’”

Psalms:
“But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such a one as goeth on still in his trespasses. The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea: That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same.”

Deuteronomy:
“And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God…”

“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;”

You might also inventory the collected hate and vitriol of Christian fundamentalists who regularly advocate death to unbelievers.